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Home arrow Blog arrow Gimme Five arrow Gimme Five arrow G5: UFC, Brock Lesnar, Money In The Bank & More!
G5: UFC, Brock Lesnar, Money In The Bank & More!
Written by NZPWI G5 Panel   
Jul 15, 2010 at 01:04 PM

This week the team takes a look at the history of the Money In The Bank Ladder match - and discuss what the upcoming ppv could mean for its future.

We also discuss Brock Lesnar's history in WWE, as well as debating whether or not UFC can step up to WWE in terms of creating serious competition.

All this and much more in this week's edition of Gimme Five.

1) Five-and-a-half years ago Chris Jericho announced an exciting new match concept for WrestleMania XXI – the Money in the Bank ladder match, where the winner would earn a contract to compete for a title of their choosing at any time or place, for a period of up to twelve months. There have been six Money in the Bank matches at WrestleMania since then; which sticks in your mind the most? What’s your favourite moment from the matches so far?

David:
Every match has its stand-out moments for sure. Right now the first things to come to my mind are Shelton Benjamin's dash up one ladder to clothesline Chris Jericho off another at WrestleMania 21, Jeff Hardy snapping Edge - and a ladder - in half at WrestleMania 23, and Kofi Kingston's stilt-walk at WrestleMania XXVI. I was legitimately shocked to see CM Punk win a second MITB at WrestleMania 25 too, which is probably my favourite moment. In terms of the overall match though, I still think the first was the best.

Dion:
I think the first still sticks out for me because it was so innovative - although the most memorable moment is probably Kofi Kingston trying to use the broken ladder from this year's WrestleMania as stilts!

Luke:
My favourite Money in The Bank was at WrestleMania 23. It had all the top talents in it and some brutal, entertaining spots. However, my favorite moment that sticks out is Shelton Benjamin running up the ladder in the original MITB at WrestleMania 21. At a time where I thought I had seen everything in a ladder match, Shelton busted that out and created a "oh my" moment that will last a lifetime.

Kirsty:
The first one, definitely. It was pretty brutal - I'll never forget Chris Benoit coming out with that huge gash over his eyebrow, busting that open that open then falling from the top of the ladder onto his injured shoulder. And Edge getting the win - that was a fantastic moment, followed by a fantastic year in which he really demonstrated what you can do with that briefcase if given the chance.

Scott:
It has to be the first one I watched live, WrestleMania 24. Sure, there may’ve been better matches before then, but that was the first I watched unfold in front of me in real time, with no spoilers. And my favourite moment was a small but significant one, after Carlito and Ken Kennedy had toppled Shelton Benjamin from a ladder into the ring onto one set up between the ring and the safety barrier. Carlito just looked down at Benjamin, eyes wide and mouth open, as if to say “my god, I’ve killed him!”

Matt:
Any match with Shelton Benjamin in it (bar this year’s disappointing effort) is worthy of the nod. My favourite MITB moment was WrestleMania 23 when Mr Kennedy delivered The Green Bay Plunge off the top of the ladder, with Hornswoggle in tow. Not since King Kong Bundy’s midget destruction at WrestleMania 3 has there been a greater “oh my God” midget moment!

Simon:
Obviously the first stands out because it was, well, the first. And I'll echo the ladder snapping - and Edge and Hardy. Also Kofi stilting it. Some good moments. But I've often been underwhelmed with the final bid to grab the bag. Might be the nature of the match and steam running out but I (almost) always feel the ending is lame.


2) With Money in the Bank now giving its name to an entire pay-per-view event, featuring separate MitB matches for each brand, what do you think the future of the match itself will be at next year’s WrestleMania?

David:
I think a lot of that depends on whether or not the two winners have cashed in their briefcases (well, the contracts inside the briefcases) before WrestleMania XXVIII. If they have, then I reckon we'll probably see the match return home to 'Mania.

Dion:
It's almost redundant, but I guess WrestleMania will allow a co-branded Money in the Bank match. I'm not a huge fan of the concept having its own pay-per-view.

Luke:
I don't see it being part of WrestleMania now they have designed a pay-per-view out of the concept. It has been a huge selling point for WrestleMania in the past six years and had given WrestleMania its own "Royal Rumble" so to speak. It was the one match that guaranteed entertainment if the undercard turned sour. I am not a big fan of WWE saturating their ppv market with gimmick matches that ensure title shots. Ten years ago, we had the Royal Rumble - the one time of the year where any superstar had their chance to earn themselves a title shot. Now we have the Rumble, Elimination Chamber, Money In the Bank... next we will see 6 man Hell in a Cell matches in September with the winner being granted a title shot.

Kirsty:
At first I feared that it might make the WrestleMania match a bit redundant, but depending on how it's handled and the outcomes, it could mean the WrestleMania match is kind of the pinnacle of Money In The Bank matches. I'm keen to see where they go with it.

Scott:
I’ll be very surprised if the Money in the Bank returned for next year’s WrestleMania. Time for something newer, fresher, I think. Hopefully the WWE writers are thinking the same way.

Matt:
Dead like a dodo! Might be good, because I really think this year’s effort was stale, and it would be nice to have a new concept arise from the ashes, where WWE could still give the nod to all the duds not worthy of singles/tag matches. Bring back the Gimmick Battle Royale I say.

Simon:
Not keen on it as a stand-alone ppv event and not sure how it'll work with a PG/no-blood deal going on. I would think these matches need to be as brutal-as and given some recent brutal/messy ppv events surely they'll be dialing it back. Wouldn't it have been good to see Daniel Bryan go at it in a MITB though?


3) Brock Lesnar is wowing the world in UFC at the moment. Cast your mind back to Lesnar’s time in WWE; what’s your favourite Lesnar match or moment in professional wrestling?

David:
Brock Lesnar vs. Goldberg at WrestleMania XX. I'm kidding, I'm kidding! I'm not sure about favourite, but I think the one I watch the most is Brock's gory Hell in a Cell match with The Undertaker from No Mercy 2002. Brock was so new and different in 2002, and he just destroyed Undertaker inside the Phenom's own environment. It was a real sight to see, and a match that I've been known to throw in the DVD player a fair bit in recent years, so it's got staying power.

Dion:
It's hard to look beyond his WrestleMania XIX WWE Championship win against Kurt Angle. That Shooting Star Press (which could have claimed his life on live television!) is still an "OMG" moment.

Luke:
There are many Brock Lesnar moments that I loved. The entire bout and shooting star press at WrestleMania XIX against Angle as Dion mentioned, leaving a bloodied, beaten and broken Undertaker glaring on in the Hell in a Cell as David said. Throwing Zach Gowen down a flight of stairs. Beating Kurt Angle in a Iron Man match... to name a few. But my favorite Brock Lesnar moment was when he superplexed the Big Show on an episode of SmackDown in 2003 which made the ring collapse on impact. That was a moment that I will never forget in wrestling.

Kirsty:
I never liked Brock Lesnar and as such have trouble pinpointing a favourite moment. Probably when he lost the WWE Championship to Eddie Guerrero. Woohoo!

Scott:
Like Kirsty; when he lost the title to Eddie Guerrero! I was never really a fan, but the first time I saw him (Summerslam 2002) I was open mouth with awe at the size, strength and speed of the guy.

Matt:
Apart from “that” shooting star vs. Angle? I liked his F5 of Zac Gowan onto the ringpost and subsequent bloody beatdown of Gowan in front of Zac’s mum (and the pushing of Zac down the stadium stairs). That whole angle put Brock in a league of monster nasty that had not been seen in WWE since the roid rage days of Demolition, The Road Warriors or The Powers of Pain and their hapless skinny opponents (albeit their opponents had all their limbs… except Mad Dog Vachon and Kerry Von Erich of course? And Scott Steiner sort of, if the "clump foot" rumours are to be believed?).

Simon:
You mean Dino Bravo 2.0? Favourite moment - not seeing him in action.


4) Would Batista succeed in MMA?

David:
Commercially? Yes. Competitively? I don't know. Batista's somewhat of a mainstream celebrity, so he's got the name-value to create a bit of a buzz if he gets involved in MMA. He doesn't, however, have the same legitimate wrestling credentials that the Brock Lesnars and Bobby Lashleys of the world have used to make their transitions from pro-wrestling to MMA a success.

Dion:
I would be very surprised. But the smart thing to do would be to reserve judgment until he got a couple of matches under his belt.

Luke:
Both Brock and Lashley have made successful transitions from the squared circle to the octagon despite what critics said. Though, after losing that fist fight to Booker T a few years back, I wouldn't be putting my money on big Dave if he enters the MMA world.

Kirsty:
No. He's too old. They will eat cornflakes out of his skull.

Scott:
Ha. Nope. A steroid-laden body-builder who keeps getting injured in pro-wrestling, not to mention being beaten up by Booker T. Not a chance.

Matt:
Could he win against hand-picked opponents? Yes. But if success is measured in UFC or Strikeforce championship belts, Batista is more likely to have success in the World Tiddly Winks League. Guys like Brock and Lashley have legitimate wrestling backgrounds. Batista was a bodybuilding bouncer. Will he make it to the dance? Yes, based purely on his WWE name. But even Ludwig Borga made it to an early UFC card, before failing in a screaming heap of octagon inflicted punishment.

He might be just the guy Dana White is looking for to teach pro wrestling a lesson, now that Brock/Lashley have upset his original applecart.

Simon:
I think he's too old and slow - but he'd draw, for a short time. I guess.


5) UFC’s popularity seems to be ever growing at the moment. What is the secret to Dana White’s success? And should WWE be worried?

David:
I'm going to quote Eric Bischoff here: "People have a tendency to wanna compare MMA to professional wrestling, and for the life of me, I just can't figure out why. It's not even apples & oranges as I've said before, it's apples & bricks." WWE should be no more worried about the UFC than they are about the FIFA World Cup or anything else that people watch for entertainment. Brock Lesnar's probably the secret to Dana's success at the moment, and all he's doing is bringing what took him to the top of WWE to the octagon. Basically, I watch UFC because it's a little like wrestling, but WWE is a lot like wrestling, so they'll always have the edge.

Dion:
I think the UFC took all of the best parts of wrestling. Building characters, feuds and controversy to build an audience. The Ultimate Fighter franchise has gone a very long way in getting new fans, with the public able to connect with up-and-coming stars.

I think WWE should be worried. It's going to be difficult for WWE to get back that male 18-35 demographic who are now UFC fans, but I can see it being easier for UFC to get those fans from WWE.

I'm sure this is part of the rationale behind WWE's PG policy. UFC is not appropriate viewing for children, so the E needs to concentrate on them, and build life-long fans.

Luke:
I was sucked into the world of UFC after watching the first few seasons of the Ultimate Fighter. Though, I am not a hardcore MMA expert, I do like to watch it when I can or when something memorable happens. Since Brock has entered the UFC, I admit, I have become a bigger fan and follow what's going on more. I agree with Dion on this one. Even though wrestling and MMA are two completely different types of entertainment, UFC has evolved most combat sports into a entertainment spectacle. Why watch boxing anymore? Because UFC took that sport and evolved it. UFC have taken the glitz, glamour, feuds and marketing that wrestling used to make itself popular and have applied their own "attitude" to MMA. UFC know how to market their fighters, with video games, figurines and a massive amount of apparel. There are heels and there are faces, people you cheer on and people you pay to see lose. Why watch ridiculous storylines that culminate in fake fights when you can see real emotion and heat in the octagon? I feel WWE should be worried despite the huge difference between the product and was evident after WrestleMania 26 took on UFC 111 earlier this year. But at the end of the day, wrestling is wrestling and UFC is real fighting.

Kirsty:
I think so, especially with WWE's PG angle. UFC will be giving fans that reality that's now missing in the WWE product. However, I do think it'll be quite some time before Vinnie Mac really gets concerned, and the WWE product is nothing if not cyclical. It could be that the rise of UFC sees a return to the more gritty style of the Attitude Era in WWE programming - here's hoping.

That said, wrestling and shoot fighting are two very different animals. I agree that the way UFC is marketed these days is somewhat reminiscent of WWE and TNA, but then so is boxing. I know there's a big crossover in their fanbases, but not so much as to really warrant concern from the 'E.

Scott:
It’s not rocket science; the secret to Dana White’s success is taking the showbiz and combat-sport elements of pro-wrestling and making them real. And I’m sure WWE are already worried, as Dion points out I’m sure WWE’s resolutely PG policy is also a marketing reaction to UFC’s success; creating a product that mums will let their children watch, even if dad and the older brothers are howling at someone getting their head caved in inside the octagon.

But I do feel McMahon has a better platform for longevity than UFC at the moment. Huge and cumbersome WWE may be, but it can probably react and cope better with market variations and any further bad news stories. And, if need be, it’s product can be changed easier if the market place changes. Can UFC change so easily? Can UFC go PG if an anti-blood sport moral crusade arises in America? What if, heavens forbid, someone dies during a UFC pay-per-view? Or a prominent fighter goes Benoit? Or, and this may be the biggest risk of all, what if it was revealed not all the fights are as ‘legitimate’ as they seem? UFC’s success seems fragile now, not WWE’s.

Matt:
Dana White's success lies in UFC matchmaker Joel Silver and his awesome ability to make great fights happen without all the ducking and diving we see in boxing or pro wrestling. Basically the fans get what they want nine times out of ten, and the matches hype themselves based on the opponents' chemistry.

Should WWE be worried? If UFC goes primetime on Monday nights, and runs ppvs to coincide with WWE ppvs they should be! I watched Lesnar/Carwin last week and the whole ppv pooed all over any WrestleMania in the past five years hands down for hype/delivery and production… and I’m a hardcore smark. Imagine what the marks are feeling right now, and how much they are switching over especially with MMA featuring so heavily on regular TV and not just ppv?

Simon:
Well it provides something for those that want more than the kiddie-safe angles and hate the overly long(-winded) promos and so on. But should WWE be worried? No. Because it's attracting the people that don't pay for the merchandise. The people that have already given a lot of their money to the toys/shirts/props when they were young and have moved on. It's actually making more room in the WWE audience for them to expand the CENAtion and so on.

User Comments
I believe there should be some degree of concern from WWE who ever runs the management and they would be question themselves why have we lost that traditional core demographic of 18-35 year old males. Im in that core demographic in pro wrestling who has fully switched over to the world of MMA after the E decides to kiss ass to the FCC and try to attract a more family based product with the whole PG strategy. 
 
Seriously Im not quite keen for the whole PG strategy that the E is implementing at present. But One day the E will go back to the gritty tv14 days somehow

Comment by Kevin Chan on 2010-07-17 21:15:09

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